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Golf Journeys · Solo Golf

Solo golf in Asia:
your tee time, your pace

Three destinations where a single golfer can play every day, with a caddie on the bag and night golf under the lights.

Asia is one of the easiest places in the world to golf on your own. At most clubs in Thailand and Vietnam, a caddie walks or rides with you, so a solo round never feels lonely, and starters can often pair you with other players. Pattaya has the most choice: Siam Country Club's three courses, including the long-running LPGA venue, plus Chee Chan and floodlit Laem Chabang. Hua Hin is relaxed and compact, with five courses a short drive from the beach. Da Nang offers oceanfront links and two floodlit courses, so you can tee off when it suits you. Ask your hotel to book tee times, and say you're happy to join a group.

🏨 Compare live rates in Hua Hin, Da Nang & Pattaya →

Is Asia good for a solo golf trip?

Very. In Thailand and Vietnam, playing with a caddie is the norm. At clubs such as Black Mountain in Hua Hin, a caddie is mandatory, so even a solo round comes with local knowledge, green reading and company. Courses close to resort towns are used to visiting golfers arriving in ones and twos.

The main things to plan are tee-time policy (some clubs may pair singles with other players or limit solo bookings at busy times), transfers (a hotel car or trusted driver is easiest), and timing (midweek mornings are the simplest to secure).

Pattaya: the most choice for a solo golfer

Pattaya and the wider Chonburi area have a dense cluster of quality courses. Siam Country Club runs three: the Old Course, long-running home of the LPGA Tour's Honda LPGA Thailand; the 27-hole Plantation, which hosted the 2015 Thailand Open; and Rolling Hills, opened in 2020 around a 25-acre lake. Chee Chan Golf Resort, named Best Course in Thailand by Golf Digest in 2020, plays beneath a gold Buddha image set into a limestone cliff; a golf cart is mandatory. Laem Chabang, Jack Nicklaus's 27-hole signature layout near Sriracha, offers floodlit night golf and an on-site Golf Lodge.

Solo dinners are easy here, with MICHELIN-recognised local cooking at the Bib Gourmand Pladids, near Siam Country Club, and Lung Shall Kitchen, plus La Cucina at the Andaz near Chee Chan. November to February is the most comfortable time to play.

Hua Hin: relaxed, compact and easy to navigate

Hua Hin is ideal if you like routine: a morning round, lunch, the beach and an early night. Black Mountain is the tour-pedigree headline round, with a caddie mandatory and visitors needing a tee time. Springfield Royal (Jack Nicklaus, 27 holes) and Palm Hills are north in Cha-am, Pineapple Valley asks for advance booking, and historic Royal Hua Hin is within walking distance of town, so it's an easy first-day round.

The town is good for solo evenings, too: the nightly Hua Hin Night Market, pier-side seafood at Chao Lay, and the weekend Cicada Market. November to March is prime season.

Da Nang: oceanfront links and golf under the lights

Da Nang is made for flexible solo days. At Legend Da Nang Golf Resort, Greg Norman's dunes course is ranked 4th in Vietnam by Top100GolfCourses, and the Nicklaus Course next door is floodlit for night golf. Ba Na Hills Golf Club, Luke Donald's first design, is fully floodlit from first tee to 18th green. Montgomerie Links is open every day to visitors with a tee time, and Hoiana Shores, named World's Best New Golf Course in 2020, welcomes visiting golfers.

Eating alone is a pleasure here: bánh xèo at the Bib Gourmand Bánh Xèo 76, a seasonal tasting menu at Nén Danang, or a bánh mì at Bánh Mì Phượng in Hoi An. February to May is the best season.

How do solo golfers book tee times and join groups?

  • Ask your hotel concierge to book. Hotels near golf towns book tee times every day and know each club's single-player policy.
  • Say you're happy to be paired. Tell the club or concierge you'll join another group; it makes booking a peak-time slot easier.
  • Choose quieter times. Midweek mornings, or twilight and night tee times at floodlit courses such as Legend's Nicklaus Course, Ba Na Hills and Laem Chabang, are often the most flexible.
  • Check cart and caddie rules, since some clubs require one or both; Chee Chan requires a cart and Black Mountain a caddie.
  • Confirm green-fee and booking policies directly with each club, as they change.

Where should a solo golfer stay?

Pick a base that makes evenings easy as well as golf. In Hua Hin, a beachfront hotel in town puts restaurants and the night market within walking distance. In Pattaya, the Jomtien and Na Jomtien coast is closer to Chee Chan and quieter than central Pattaya, while Laem Chabang's on-site Golf Lodge suits a golf-only stay. In Da Nang, a beach resort on the stretch toward Hoi An keeps the Legend, Montgomerie and Hoiana courses close. Five-star hotels usually have bars, restaurants and staff who make dining alone comfortable, but check the hotel page for single-occupancy rates and facilities.

⛳ The courses worth the trip

Golf season: November to March is the prime golf window in Hua Hin and Cha-am, with dry skies, lower humidity and the most comfortable morning temperatures of the year. Hua Hin sits in a relatively dry rain shadow on the Gulf coast, so play continues year-round, though October usually brings the heaviest showers. February to May is the sweet spot: the central coast is dry, sea breezes keep mornings comfortable and the links-style courses play firm and fast. June to August is still dry but hot, while September to December brings the rainy and typhoon season. November to February is the most comfortable time to play Pattaya and Chonburi, with dry weather, steady breezes and the coolest mornings of the year. March to May is hot but mostly dry, while the May-to-October rainy season brings short, heavy afternoon storms, so morning tee times are the safer choice.

Black Mountain Golf Club

Hua Hin (incl. Cha-am) · Design: Phil Ryan (Pacific Coast Design) · 27 holes · Opened 2007 · inland championship, set beneath limestone hills

Hosted the Asian Tour's Black Mountain Masters in 2009 and the 2015 Thailand Classic, co-sanctioned by the Asian Tour and European Tour, and is routinely ranked among Thailand's top courses.

Access: Open to visitors with a tee time; caddie mandatory.

Pineapple Valley Golf Club Hua Hin

Hua Hin (incl. Cha-am) · Design: Pirapon Namatra · 18 holes · parkland, rolling hills

Formerly Banyan Golf Club (renamed on 1 March 2024), the layout was routed through a former pineapple plantation and is regularly voted among Thailand's best clubs by visiting golfers.

Access: Open to visitors with tee-time booking.

Springfield Royal Country Club

Hua Hin (incl. Cha-am) · Design: Jack Nicklaus · 27 holes · hillside parkland

Jack Nicklaus's 27 holes (Mountain, Lake and Valley nines) climb the hills above the Gulf of Thailand, and the course remains one of Nicklaus's best-known early international designs in Asia.

Royal Hua Hin Golf Course

Hua Hin (incl. Cha-am) · 18 holes · Opened 1924 · traditional parkland

Thailand's oldest golf course, laid out for railway travellers beside the historic Hua Hin Railway Station, with tree-lined fairways, hillside temples and Gulf views.

Access: Open to visitors; walking distance from central Hua Hin.

Palm Hills Golf Club & Residence

Hua Hin (incl. Cha-am) · Design: Max Wexler · 18 holes · Opened 1992 · links-style foothills

Hua Hin's first modern international-standard course, which hosted the inaugural Thailand World Pro-Am in 1993, with undulating terrain that gives several holes a links-like feel.

Hoiana Shores Golf Club

Da Nang & Hoi An · Design: Robert Trent Jones Jr. · 18 holes · Opened 2020 · links-style, oceanfront

Named World's Best New Golf Course at the 2020 World Golf Awards, it hosted the R&A's Women's Amateur Asia-Pacific Championship in March 2025 and holes are marked by red lanterns inspired by Hoi An's Old Town.

Access: Open to visiting golfers; stay-and-play packages offered via the resort

Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course

Da Nang & Hoi An · Design: Jack Nicklaus (Nicklaus Design) · 18 holes · Opened 2020 · resort, water-heavy parkland

Venue of the BRG Open Golf Championship Danang, an Asian Development Tour event held here in 2022, 2023 and 2024; the course is floodlit for night golf.

Access: Formerly branded BRG Da Nang Golf Resort; night golf available on this course

Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Norman Course (Dunes Course)

Da Nang & Hoi An · Design: Greg Norman · 18 holes · Opened 2010 · links-style, oceanfront

Laid out across seaside dunes with blown-out bunkers and views of the Marble Mountains, it is ranked 4th in Vietnam and 29th in Asia by Top100GolfCourses.

Ba Na Hills Golf Club

Da Nang & Hoi An · Design: Luke Donald · 18 holes · Opened 2016 · mountain, parkland

Luke Donald's first course design, it stretches 7,858 yards from the back tees at the foot of the Ba Na mountains and is fully floodlit from first tee to 18th green for night golf.

Access: Night golf available

Montgomerie Links Vietnam

Da Nang & Hoi An · Design: Colin Montgomerie · 18 holes · links-style, coastal

Central Vietnam's first golf course, a 7,090-yard links-style layout on sandy coastal ground with the Marble Mountains visible from many holes.

Access: Open every day to visitors with tee time; on-site hotel and villas

Siam Country Club - Old Course

Pattaya (incl. Chonburi) · Design: Ichisuke Izumi; renovated by Schmidt-Curley Design (2006-2007) · 18 holes · Opened 1971 · parkland, rolling hills

The long-running home of the LPGA Tour's Honda LPGA Thailand, and a past venue of the Thailand Open (1973, 1978, 1984).

Access: Open to visitors with tee-time booking.

Siam Country Club - Plantation Course

Pattaya (incl. Chonburi) · Design: Schmidt-Curley Design · 27 holes · Opened 2008 · hillside parkland

A 27-hole Schmidt-Curley layout with a triple green and big elevation changes, which hosted the 2015 Thailand Open.

Siam Country Club - Rolling Hills Course

Pattaya (incl. Chonburi) · Design: Schmidt-Curley Design · 18 holes · Opened 2020 · modern parkland with sandy waste areas

The club's newest course, set in a valley around a 25-acre excavated lake, with a 'Wall of Death' bunker complex on the par-5 15th and a driveable par-4 17th.

Laem Chabang International Country Club

Pattaya (incl. Chonburi) · Design: Jack Nicklaus · 27 holes · parkland, lakes and hills

A 27-hole Jack Nicklaus Signature design (Mountain, Lake and Valley nines) across about 700 acres near Sriracha, with floodlit night golf.

Access: Open to visitors; night golf available; on-site Golf Lodge hotel.

Chee Chan Golf Resort

Pattaya (incl. Chonburi) · Design: David Dale (Golfplan) · 18 holes · modern parkland with mountain backdrop

Laid out at the foot of Khao Chee Chan, the cliff carved with a giant gold Buddha image that is visible from across the course; named Best Course in Thailand by Golf Digest in 2020.

Access: Open to visitors with tee time; golf cart mandatory.

Drive times are estimates from the nearest hotel in this guide and depend on traffic. Book tee times directly with each club; access rules can change.

🏨 Five-star stays near the fairways (live Agoda data) (24)

Five-star only, ranked by nightly price. Live Agoda rates for 2 adults, taxes and fees included, checked 2026-10-14 — confirm the live rate on Agoda.

V Villas Hua Hin - MGallery Collection
V Villas Hua Hin - MGallery Collection 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.2 · 305 reviews · from $786/night ⛳ about 12 min drive to Royal Hua Hin Golf Course See it on Agoda →
Avani+ Hua Hin Resort
Avani+ Hua Hin Resort 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 8.9 · 5,818 reviews · from $472/night ⛳ about 15 min drive to Palm Hills Golf Club & Residence See it on Agoda →
The Standard, Hua Hin, by Hyatt
The Standard, Hua Hin, by Hyatt 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.3 · 1,735 reviews · from $333/night ⛳ 14 min walk to Royal Hua Hin Golf Course See it on Agoda →
Cape Nidhra Hotel
Cape Nidhra Hotel 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.1 · 4,682 reviews · from $330/night ⛳ about 8 min drive to Royal Hua Hin Golf Course See it on Agoda →
THE BARAI HUA HIN – The Unbound Collection by Hyatt
THE BARAI HUA HIN – The Unbound Collection by Hyatt 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.6 · 76 reviews · from $317/night ⛳ about 15 min drive to Royal Hua Hin Golf Course See it on Agoda →
The Standard Hua Hin
The Standard Hua Hin 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.1 · 7,243 reviews · from $313/night ⛳ 15 min walk to Royal Hua Hin Golf Course See it on Agoda →
Demi The Third & Owari's House (Owari no Ie) Pranburi
Demi The Third & Owari's House (Owari no Ie) Pranburi 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 9.3 · 97 reviews · from $310/night ⛳ about 52 min drive to Pineapple Valley Golf Club Hua Hin See it on Agoda →
The Palayana Resort & Villas Hua Hin
The Palayana Resort & Villas Hua Hin 5-star · Hua Hin · ★ 8.6 · 3,824 reviews · from $309/night ⛳ about 16 min drive to Palm Hills Golf Club & Residence See it on Agoda →
InterContinental Danang Sun Peninsula Resort By IHG
InterContinental Danang Sun Peninsula Resort By IHG 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9.1 · 3,445 reviews · from $517/night ⛳ about 50 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
TIA Wellness Resort - Spa Inclusive
TIA Wellness Resort - Spa Inclusive 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9.1 · 4,127 reviews · from $459/night ⛳ about 24 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
Premier Villa Danang Resort
Premier Villa Danang Resort 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9 · 126 reviews · from $422/night ⛳ about 28 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
Banyan Tree Lang Co
Banyan Tree Lang Co 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9.1 · 1,595 reviews · from $406/night ⛳ about 60 min drive to Ba Na Hills Golf Club See it on Agoda →
Danang Marriott Resort & Spa, Non Nuoc Beach Villas
Danang Marriott Resort & Spa, Non Nuoc Beach Villas 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 8.9 · 3,108 reviews · from $354/night ⛳ about 12 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
Ocean Villas Beach Resort
Ocean Villas Beach Resort 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 8.6 · 78 reviews · from $325/night ⛳ about 22 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
Premier Villas Beach Resort
Premier Villas Beach Resort 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9.1 · 98 reviews · from $302/night ⛳ about 28 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
ANIA Luxury Pool Resort Villas
ANIA Luxury Pool Resort Villas 5-star · Da Nang · ★ 9.6 · 88 reviews · from $283/night ⛳ about 28 min drive to Legend Da Nang Golf Resort – Nicklaus Course See it on Agoda →
Avani Pattaya Resort
Avani Pattaya Resort 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 8.7 · 6,816 reviews · from $570/night ⛳ about 31 min drive to Siam Country Club - Plantation Course See it on Agoda →
Movenpick pool villa by ANGKANA
Movenpick pool villa by ANGKANA 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9.3 · 127 reviews · from $537/night ⛳ about 28 min drive to Chee Chan Golf Resort See it on Agoda →
Meliá Pattaya Hotel
Meliá Pattaya Hotel 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9.1 · 2,065 reviews · from $498/night ⛳ about 29 min drive to Siam Country Club - Plantation Course See it on Agoda →
Royal Wing Suites & Spa Pattaya
Royal Wing Suites & Spa Pattaya 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9 · 483 reviews · from $496/night ⛳ about 35 min drive to Siam Country Club - Plantation Course See it on Agoda →
MASON, a member of Design Hotels
MASON, a member of Design Hotels 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9.1 · 2,415 reviews · from $454/night ⛳ about 21 min drive to Chee Chan Golf Resort See it on Agoda →
[hiii] Aura Villa Hotel Pattaya Central
[hiii] Aura Villa Hotel Pattaya Central 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9.5 · 81 reviews · from $355/night ⛳ about 27 min drive to Siam Country Club - Plantation Course See it on Agoda →
Andaz Pattaya Jomtien Beach, By Hyatt
Andaz Pattaya Jomtien Beach, By Hyatt 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 9.1 · 2,019 reviews · from $349/night ⛳ about 20 min drive to Chee Chan Golf Resort See it on Agoda →
Amari Pattaya
Amari Pattaya 5-star · Pattaya · ★ 8.7 · 11,691 reviews · from $318/night ⛳ about 31 min drive to Siam Country Club - Plantation Course See it on Agoda →

🍽️ Off the course: where to eat & what to see

Chao Lay SeafoodThai seafood · Hua Hin town (Naresdamri Road, by the fishing pier)A long-running pier-side seafood house with live tanks and Gulf views, known for crab curry and baked scallops.✔ Listed among Hua Hin's top restaurants, 15 Naresdamri RdMap
Baan ItsaraThai seafood · Hua Hin town (Naebkehardt Road beachfront)Beachfront tables in an old Hua Hin house and more than 3,600 Google reviews, with clams in basil as the signature dish.✔ 4.4 stars from 3,626 Google reviews; beachfront seafoodMap
You Yen Hua Hin BalconyRegional Thai · Hua Hin town (Naebkehardt Road beachfront)Regional Thai cooking served in a 1920s wooden house on the beach.✔ Listed among Hua Hin's top restaurants; 1920s wooden Thai houseMap
Railroad RestaurantThai and international · Centara Grand Beach Resort & Villas Hua HinColonial-style dining room inside the historic 1920s Railway Hotel, now the Centara Grand.✔ Listed among Hua Hin's top restaurants; 1 Damnernkasem RdMap
La Maison 1888French contemporary · Son Tra Peninsula, Da NangCentral Vietnam's only One MICHELIN Star restaurant, serving five- or eight-course menus in a recreated Indochine mansion (currently operating from the resort's Club Lounge).✔ MICHELIN Guide: One Star, French Contemporary✔ Da Nang tourism: sole One Star in Da Nang, MICHELIN Guide 2026Map
Nén DanangVietnamese contemporary tasting menu · Ngu Hanh Son, Da Nang (near the Legend and Montgomerie courses)Vietnam's first MICHELIN Green Star, chef Summer Le's seasonal set menu draws on herbs and greens from the restaurant's own farm.✔ MICHELIN Guide: Green Star, Vietnamese ContemporaryMap
Bánh Xèo 76Vietnamese (bánh xèo, grilled pork) · Ngu Hanh Son, Da NangA MICHELIN Bib Gourmand for crisp bánh xèo, fresh-corn rolls and pork grilled over charcoal at the entrance.✔ MICHELIN Guide: Bib Gourmand listingMap
Bánh Mì PhượngVietnamese bánh mì · Hoi An Ancient TownHoi An's best-known bánh mì shop, made famous internationally on Anthony Bourdain: No Reservations; expect a queue at peak hours.✔ Rusty Compass review: address and history of the stallMap
PladidsThai home-style · Pong, Bang Lamung (near Siam Country Club)MICHELIN Bib Gourmand for seasonal Thai set meals served with changing speciality rice.✔ MICHELIN Guide Thailand 2026, Bib GourmandMap
Lung Shall KitchenThai · Nong Prue, PattayaMICHELIN Bib Gourmand known for its stir-fried black squid ink and other seafood dishes.✔ MICHELIN Guide Thailand 2026, Bib GourmandMap
WansukThai · Nong Prue, PattayaMICHELIN-listed local favourite with retro wooden interiors and boldly spiced seafood.✔ MICHELIN Guide Thailand listingMap
La CucinaItalian · Na Jomtien (Andaz Pattaya Jomtien Beach), near Chee Chan Golf ResortMICHELIN-listed garden restaurant with an Italian chef, an open kitchen and arrosto-style cooking.✔ MICHELIN Guide Thailand listingMap
Hua Hin Railway StationlandmarkThe red-and-cream wooden station and its royal waiting pavilion are the town's best-known landmark, a short walk from Royal Hua Hin Golf Course.Map
Mrigadayavan Palace (Maruekhathaiyawan)landmarkKing Rama VI's teak seaside summer palace, raised on stilts and linked by breezy covered walkways.Map
Cicada MarketmarketWeekend evening art-and-craft market with live performances and local food stalls.Map
Khao TakiabnatureHilltop temple with macaques and wide views along Hua Hin's beaches.Map
Hua Hin Night MarketmarketNightly street-food and shopping strip in the centre of town.Map
Hoi An Ancient TownlandmarkA UNESCO World Heritage trading port of lantern-lit merchant houses, assembly halls and the Japanese Covered Bridge.Map
My Son SanctuarylandmarkUNESCO-listed ruins of Cham Hindu temple towers in a jungle valley, an easy morning trip from Hoi An.Map
Marble Mountains (Ngu Hanh Son)natureFive limestone peaks with cave pagodas and lookouts, visible from both Legend and Montgomerie Links.Map
Golden Bridge at Sun World Ba Na HillsexperienceThe giant-hands footbridge reached by cable car above the Ba Na Hills Golf Club, cooler at altitude.Map
My Khe BeachbeachDa Nang's long city beach, lined with seafood restaurants and best at sunrise.Map
Sanctuary of TruthlandmarkA vast seafront temple-like structure built entirely of hand-carved teak, still under construction since 1981.Map
Khao Chee Chan (Buddha Mountain)landmarkA Buddha image laid in gold into a limestone cliff face, next to Chee Chan Golf Resort.Map
Nong Nooch Tropical GardennatureLarge landscaped botanical gardens with themed sections, cycads and orchid collections.Map
Koh LarnbeachAn island with clear-water beaches about 45 minutes by ferry from Pattaya.Map
Wat Phra Yai (Big Buddha Hill)landmarkHilltop golden Buddha with views over Pattaya Bay.Map

🏝️ Where to base your golf trip

🍽️ Dining & cafés near Hua Hin, Da Nang & Pattaya

❓ Golf trip FAQ

Can I book a tee time as a single golfer in Asia?

Usually, yes. Many clubs in Thailand and Vietnam accept single players, and your caddie makes a solo round feel like company. At busy times, some clubs may pair you with another group or limit solo bookings. Ask your hotel concierge to book, say you're happy to be paired, and confirm each club's policy directly.

Which destination is best for a solo golf trip?

Pattaya has the most choice, with Siam Country Club's three courses, Chee Chan and Laem Chabang all nearby. Hua Hin is compact and relaxed, with Royal Hua Hin walkable from town. Da Nang suits flexible days, with oceanfront links and two floodlit courses for night golf. Choose based on season and the pace you prefer.

Is night golf available in Da Nang and Pattaya?

Yes. In Da Nang, the Nicklaus Course at Legend Da Nang Golf Resort is floodlit for night golf, and Ba Na Hills Golf Club is fully floodlit from first tee to 18th green. Near Pattaya, Laem Chabang International Country Club offers floodlit night golf. Confirm night tee times and operating days with each club.

Do I need a caddie when playing alone?

Often, yes. At Black Mountain in Hua Hin a caddie is mandatory, and caddies are standard practice across Thailand. For a solo golfer, a caddie is a real asset, helping with lines, green reading and local tips. At Chee Chan near Pattaya a cart is mandatory. Tip caddies in cash; your hotel can advise on amounts.

When is the best time for solo golf in Hua Hin, Da Nang and Pattaya?

Pattaya is most comfortable from November to February, and Hua Hin's prime window is November to March. Da Nang is best from February to May. Its rainy and typhoon season runs from September to December. Midweek mornings are easiest to book everywhere, and twilight slots at floodlit courses can be more flexible.

Is it easy to eat out alone in these destinations?

Yes. All three have relaxed dining, from Hua Hin's night market and pier-side seafood to Pattaya's Bib Gourmand kitchens such as Pladids and Lung Shall Kitchen, and Da Nang's Bánh Xèo 76. Five-star hotel restaurants and bars are also comfortable for solo diners, and counter or bar seating is common at casual spots.

🏨 Check solo-friendly stays →

Some links are Agoda affiliate links; we may earn a commission at no extra cost to you. Course details come from official club websites and published sources and can change — confirm tee times, access rules and dress codes directly with each club. Drive times are estimates.